Derek: “Hello and welcome to the Digital Bus Podcast, Episode 5 and I am here today, this is Derek Mehraban, CEO of Ingenex Digital Marketing and today I’m interviewing a friend of mine, a mentor. Someone who’s done very well in this business, ah, Dean Krispin, who is the Director of CRM for major OEM manufacture and he also manages leads. And Dean how you doing today?”
Dean: “Very good Derek. And you also forgot to say that ah, we’re fraternity brothers (laughs).”
Derek: “Yeah, we’re fraternity brothers. Shout out to Phi Kappa Tau Fraternity.”
Dean: “Thank you.”
Derek: “All right Dean. So tell us, tell us something about yourself and the types of things you do. I think the people are really interested to hear.”
Dean: “Well um, I work for a consulting firm that works specifically with automotive OEMs. My past history is I’ve worked ah, um, since the early 90s in the Ad Banner Ad space and also I’ve worked in the email marketing space. Ah, and then what has evolved to the proverbial multichannel marketing ah, strategies.”
Derek: “Okay.”
Dean: “All center are open data and how data can be used to provide that most timingly used buzz word within our space relevant consumer content and messaging to create the best consumer experience. So with that being said, um, my background is one of having technical skills, statistical, analytical skills along with marketing ah, and creative skills.”
Derek: “Okay.”
Dean: “And so those, those broad skill sets is what allows me to fit in to this multichannel marketing space.”
Derek: “Okay, and that’s a really hot thing right now is, is I think using data, gathering data to insurance purchase to reach out to consumers. I mean you’re in one of the hottest fields out there.”
Dean: “Yeah. In, in direct marketers are all well aware of, of the beauty of, of ah, direct marketing is accountability through metrics and measurements.”
Derek: “Okay.”
Dean: “But we’re kind of going through a transition right now where, as marketers where we really don’t know how to utilize the data in a non- silos manner. What I mean by that is we know how to create optimal lists for specific, let’s say postal mail campaigns or for email campaigns…”
Derek: “Okay.”
Dean: “…they, they exist, those metrics and measurements exist in individuals silos, you know. And also, we really aren’t able to combine that 360 view of a consumer to be able to truly optimize consumer’s retention or acquisitions to keep them loyal, ah, to prevent ah, abandonment or migration to other products and how you keep them loyal.”
Derek: “Uhmmm.”
Dean: “And it’s all related and centered around data and nothing new to marketers. How do you do it? How can you make that happen is, ah, in today’s multichannel environment, ah, is really the Holy Grail that all marketers are working towards.”
Derek: “Yeah, what, you know I think that’s very interesting, Dean, especially in automotive because new products come out, you know, ah, I think America is not quite as brand loyal as we were 50 years ago. There was Ford families, GM families, Chrysler families, but today, with, you know Japanese companies coming in, I think it’s tough to keep people being loyal. So, I think marketing and the communications they are talking about have a real opportunity to potentially move that needle.”
Dean: “Yeah, and even more unique in the automotive industry because when you’re talking about this closed-loop marketing, another buzzword, ah, the automotive industry is really in a unique position compared to let’s say other verticals even, even traditional retailers. When you can truly have enough data, ah, to, from an accountability track, what the purchase and be able to understand exactly what is influencing that purchase and the missing element that the automotive industry is tapping right now is the retail channel which the retail channel that dealers themselves, how can they operationally be prepared ah, to handle the ah, the online traffic along the people that are coming into the showroom to basically have enough inventory at the end of the day or the right inventory mix is an obvious example. So the same thing holds true for retailers when you’re stacking shelves at the store level. So what’s beautiful about data, when you’re talking about this targeted messaging, ah, that we used to spent a lot of time trying to provide the target, the right target message or offer or promotion to the consumer, but what, what is really a great opportunity now is to use that data or insight, you may use that word loosely, but insight means so many things to so many marketers but failed to understand the patterns to now do forecasting to determine what, what inventory levels should be in a dealer or on a retail shelf. So, because we all understand, I like speaking of being as a retailer. When you describe CRM, CRM means a lot of things to different people but at the end of the day, you could all be doing all the right messaging, but if, if your experience as a consumer is not positive from a certain perspective or the product is not available, then all these messaging means nothing.”
Derek: “Yeah. I agree. I agree. And let’s talk a little bit more about that, the whole idea of CRM combines with market research. Why is that so important to clients today? If you could describe that what’s…?”
Dean: “Well there is the, the main reason why it’s important is because everyone is trying to overcome the obstacle of the current market research methods that are used. Ah, a lot of people ah, use survey data, so they conduct surveys and that is commonly known as added tool data. People are now starting to look at quick stream or favorable data. Um, and then there’s obviously trans-action or historical data that’s available to retailers or the OEMs. But the problem is, is, is that data truly insightful? Is it truly giving you an accurate picture of what a consumer’s intent is? So what is happening, why it’s relevant, why market research is so relevant is everyone’s looking to provide research that is very timely and relevant because they’re moving target with consumers. Their purchase time horizons, or their purchase intentions or their affinity or brand loyalty can change on a dime. So how can you incorporate data from a market research perspective that can be flexible and fluid enough to map to all those changing dynamic conditions going out in the market place with the consumers? That’s why market research is so important. But the issue is, is how can you do it? That allows you to be flexible and fluid.”
Derek: “Right. Right.”
Dean: “Yeah. That, that is the secret sauce that every marketers’ trying to get their hands around and why market research is such a hot topic.”
Derek: “Well can you tell us? I mean can you give us a little glimpse and what the secret is for that? You obviously have some methodology to pull all of these together, I mean…”
Dean: “Yes. It exists in ah, for my strong opinion that this is the direction and the trend that I see happening out in the market place.”
Derek: “Okay.”
Dean: “Ah, it’s really centered around what is commonly known as modeling of data, statistical modeling of data. And that statistical modeling of the data provides insights where you were able to predict the likelihood of someone purchasing any product of vehicle or, or consumer electronics product for example. And what you’re doing with that is you’re now predicting to be able to segment and manage your list, for, for example in postal mail or email. What we’re really able to do is map it to the consumer’s life cycle stages.”
Derek: “Okay”
Dean: “And know where they are in that so that you can treat them differently from not only a message perspective but maybe a proper channel or the proper um, the proper ah, the messaging associated with the channel might be like an email versus a brochure. You might get a postal mailer with promotions offers and incentives or you might get an email ah, with postal or excuse me with ah, promotions offers or incentives.”
Derek: “Okay.”
Dean: “And, so but the stability of modeling that data with a very holistic view of all different data types transactional, historical, ah, behavioral, consumers ah, profile, demographic information that can be expanded by ah, by purchasing additional enhanced data, but to be able to do that all in a very, very fast and flexible environment doesn’t have to be real time, but the goal to answer your questions specifically now is to flip the whole creative process upside down.”
Derek: “Okay.”
Dean: “Let me just describe what that creative process and how it exist today. You mighty have database marketers or you have market researchers. Both in this process are one and the same. Then ultimately you’re looking at, what is the demographic profile of my, my consumer?”
Dean: “From there, they create a creative brief to pass off to the, ah, agency of record. The agency has a very bright creative people who are using intuition to now try to come up with the proper messaging the proper branding, the proper images, proper look and feel to match that given demographic profile.”
Dean: “The analytic approach is one where it’s still utilizes the intuition of the creative person. But really, it provides more insight on exactly what the demographic profile really is, commonly known as what are those key factors that attribute to the element? Or put someone the consumer into a specific life cycle stage. Are they really, do they really have high intent to purchase? Do they really have high affinity for a specific product or service? And if they don’t, then you are able to rather than just relying in demographic segmentation, understand exactly where the consumer is in their life cycle to provide even further more relevant segmentation to be able to drive the messaging, the creative process.”
Derek: “Yeah, I mean that’s…”
Dean: “So it’s, it’s to sum it up, it’s slipping to existing creative process, it’s all, always existed upside down.”
Derek: “So to me that’s, that’s incredible, right? Because in the past, you know, when I worked at traditional agencies, that’s exactly how it works just the way you described it. So, well here’s my question, because, so I like this idea, basically, you’re providing a strategic advantage for any creative team that you worked with, you know, for this. To be able to develop such a specific treatment or a specific targeted message, um, I mean it must be very satisfying for one to know that you’re hitting the mark and for the, you know, OEMs and the manufacturers to know that this is research-driven research-proven marketing. It’s kind of, you know, it’s dramatic. It’s ah…”
Dean: “It is. And, and but what is really actually fun and frustrating at the same is really, is the stability of test control. The tendencies for being inflexible and adaptive to this type of approach, what is, ah, eternally going on in this process is constant test control.”
Dean: “So what you’ve done now is because of the process that we relate to that exist today, the creative process that exist today, what you’re able to do is really shorten that turnaround time. But in the meantime, what you’re doing is constant testing control. So you’re adapting, adapting and changing and adjusting constantly.”
Derek: “Right.”
Dean: “And so really, that really is the satisfaction or you’re never ever getting it right, right out of the, out of the shoots. What you’re doing is, you’re constantly adapting, changing through testing control.”
Derek: “And, and who are, who are the people behind that? I mean is this, are these tech geeks or the engineers, are they marketers? I mean who is…”
Dean: “It’s a, it’s a cross-functional team.”
Derek: “Okay.”
Dean: “Um, truly what you’re seeing in, from a work group perspective at major agencies, and agencies being direct marketing agencies are on the client side of the marketing teams, you’re seeing a group of, um, data. Database people, statistical teams, the, the marketing strategists, the marketing tactical operational people, along with ah, the pure creative people, all coming together. Ah, but really what happens is that the analyst and the, the modelers become more of a relevant or have a more relevant role in guiding the ship.”
Derek: “Okay. Almost like a revenge of the nerds type of thing. I mean, right because I mean I used to be creative you know. And here’re these people coming in with all these data and saying, “No, no, no, you need to do it this way,” that’s, that’s ah…”
Dean: “Yeah and that’s, and that’s actually and probably the number one obstacle that occurs right now in this transition that I’ve been describing.”
Derek: “Uhuh.”
Dean: “But ah, what you’re seeing as is that you just can’t have someone with pure numbers perspectives. Ah, one of the major needs and the men out there in the market place specifically in the marketing area is a nerd if you will who also understands business and who is a marketer.’
Derek: (Laughs)
Dean: “And I…”
Derek: “We could say geek, maybe geek is better. That’s, that’s kind of a hip term these days, right? (Laughs)”
Dean: “Yeah. But it, it’s all, it’s all coming about, and then we’ve all are aware about the changes in the marketing space where there’s a lot of talk about marketing sciences.”
Derek: “Uhmmm.”
Dean: “And how, and in this transition, just like in any field, there’s major demand for marketing scientist who have a broad, well-rounded skill such that traditionally exist in the marketing field.”
Derek: “Yeah, I, I agree. Here’s a question Dean. When you talk about this process now, the agencies, I think, you know, things move slow, it takes time to implement change, but then when I hear you’re talking, you’re talking real time, you’re talking immediate and the need for responding so are there some best practices that are coming into play that are helping companies move quicker in reacting to this data to get out to the consumer?”
Dean: “Yes I see major consulting firms, ah, along with software companies trading best practice templates. There are, that when I say best practice templates that basically have skeletons or processes that are ah, adaptable toward specific verticals. So the finance industry, the automotive industry, the, the, healthcare industry, the retail industries, they are creating these templates as best practices so that they can be easily, ah, adapted by the marketing team and easily adjusted. So these best practice templates are also equipped with business rules that can be easily changed and adjusted. And then on top of that, to providing templates that similar to what already existed in common campaign management tools. Ah, and those all become the plate holders if you will to be able to give guidance and best practice direction ah, to the marketers both on the client side and the agency side and the agency side.”
Derek: “Okay. All right. And so being– can you tell us a little bit about some innovative systems or processes that you are seeing right now and that if you can give us any examples that are going on out there that you think are really leading the way?”
Dean: “Um, well, I’ll use an example in the mortgage industry or the credit card industry or the mutual fund industry. They’re all using data to provide recommendations to the inbound call center. So when you call in, um, I use an example with the cellphone industry. Or in Europe or Voda phone. Ah, along with ah, Verizon here in the states. These companies are taking the data, taking an analytical approach that I have described and when you call in for a simple request about your bill. There is in real time a complete profile to the call center agent to be able to take advantage, but not just to push it out to you. It gives you, it, it identifies if you potentially have a high likelihood for another plan, minutes plan or might have another potential. You may cross-sell opportunity for another product because, product being a cellphone. So it’s kind of we know now in, in the field as a recommendation advisor that is used within at the call center to give scripting recommendations and advice to the, to the call center agents.”
Derek: “Okay.”
Dean: “And what’s really, really important from an operational perspective, is the call center agents are allocated, think of it as a resource allocation. So if you’re calling in just from literally your phone number that you’re calling in from even prior to actually identifying yourself with the agent for your name or, or address, it is able to determine more, most likely why you’re calling can now route you to the appropriate skilled agent.”
Derek: “Interesting.”
Dean: “So think of the agents now are managed. If you ultimately help the consumers get what they need and want with as little as possible.”
Derek: “Yeah. So I mean that’s what…”
Dean: “And I can go on and on about those types of applications they currently exist. But I see this is being, right now in today’s world, a, the most or the best example of how this data-driven approach is being utilized. And what I see now is actually companies like Axiom wanting to take the same approach from a data perspective in manage content in a banner ad the same way. So ultimately your offers, your incentives, your creative work, all is going to be very, very targeted in relevance. Um, so if you go to fidelity.com and I go to ah, ING for example, you might get a small cap banner ad with an appropriate offer and incentives and I might get a mid cap offer and promotion from let’s say, whatever brokerage house is, is the advertiser on that fidelity.com website. It’s, it’s that kind of approach that is ultimately called treatment determination that can be used in call centers, can be used banner ads, can be used in dynamically serving the messaging with an email. It can be the template to drive your postal campaigns, these along those lines.”
Derek: “Okay. So, Dean, when you mentioned a company like Axiom, what are the some of the other, where are some of the large data companies out there that are supplying this data to whether it’s OEMs or into marketing companies?”
Dean: “Excellent question. We’re so focused on data, but it’s really about the methodology or, or the implementation of that data. I think we’re on a transition where a lot of companies don’t know how to do that yet. So it’s really the hybrid of companies. It’s just not the data ah, the people that have access are on the data like in Axiom but it’s also the agencies, the digital marketing agencies, so as the traditional agencies. Everyone is creating these analytic groups to not just provide post-insight analysis after a traditional creative campaign process. But they’re all looking to the how can we ah, create the proper metrics and measurements first of all. How can we measure the business success along with the ah, the marketing success, but more importantly how can we take these data and create a proper profile that really creates that relevant message. And then more importantly, having that kind of insight, I call it demand insight. Now you know what the market place is demanding. How can I use that data to help my operational side, the side relating to self-inventory or getting the right people on a call center with right– in a call center environment with right skills dealing with the specific customer.”
Derek: “Okay.”
Dean: “So I think it’s, there is no one type of company that is, that is capturing this expertise. I think it’s ah, a lot of, a lot of existing players in our ah, marketing business are all coming at it from the different directions for trying to accomplish the same goal.”
Derek: “Okay.”
Dean: “Did that answer your question?”
Derek: “Yeah, definitely. And that’s I think something that our listeners are very interested in ah, hearing. So tell me this, in your opinion, where do you see the digital marketing industry going in the next 5 to 10 years?”
Dean: “I, um, as I was alluding to earlier but to be more specific, the marketing and operations’ coming together. Ah, right now, marketing might provide reports, reports might be metric-oriented towards let’s say on the outline banner ads the click through rates. But what is that quick-through rate really do for the operational side? It might mean something for a marketer to optimize their, their target campaigns or towards providing better content or try to do some things differently to increase the list, but it does nothing for the business side. So what I see is, I see agencies, of all different types. The data companies, all are providing reports that are going to be more aligned towards the operational side of the business and guiding the business operations. I think that’s the biggest trial that’s going to occur. Ironically, I was in to see Stan last night and I heard um, the seal Microsoft talking about exactly this topic ah, last night. And ah, that’s why there’s a lot of buzz about social networking. And social networking in itself is strictly just the way of getting better data to provide better insight to actually know where the consumer is. Not just, not just provide targeted messaging but know where they are in their life cycle and thus, once you know that and truly understand where the consumer is in their life cycle, it drives ah, insight into the operational side of the business.”
Derek: “Yeah, you know I, you know I think, I think you’re right on to your assessment. And it seems to me because I talked to, you know, CEOs of companies and, and it’s that transition because we can provide all these data exactly, right? Tracking their analytics, ah, understanding their consumer, make all these recommendations but then what is the operational transition for them and I think that being able to provide that seamlessly so they can understand it and bringing those two together will be then extra and I totally agree.”
Dean: “I’m going to just paraphrase by description of the, of what I see is the trends going forward.”
Derek: “Okay.”
Dean: “There is ah, a lot of people out there talking about in-market retailer, in-market, understanding the consumer while they’re in-market. And when they talk about in-market retail, that’s what they’re talking about. They’re talking about demands sensing, understanding the consumers intent to be able to forecast a few and then be able to apply it to the operational side of the business. And that is clearly to me what big opportunity is for marketers, either being a small company for a small company or for a large company. At the end of the day, ah, Joe’s Bagel Shop needs to understand what is the potential opportunity that market place for what is the demand in the market place so you get the capability– and that’s what’s so great about all these social networking, ah, tolls that are being provided through this web 2.0 technologies, is that you can now localize to have a very, very local level. What is in the mind of your consumers or potential consumers even at Joe’s Bagel Shop? And then from there be able to adjust. How many times have you gone into the bagel shop and they ran out of plain bagels? I experience ah, having lived in New York happens all the time, but to be able to have that kind of demand in sight for a very, very minimal costs by just taking advantage of some of the comments, social networking tools. Um, it is very, very powerful.”
Derek: “I agree. I agree. So okay, last question to you. If you could give advice to someone coming out of college right now and they wanted to do what you’re doing someday, what type of advise would you give them?”
Dean: “It’s, it’s actually ah, marketing has the space to. Ah, another thing that _____ last night on CNN or _____ was talking about is that media in general is going through a major change and there are going to be more marketers today than ever before. And the reason is, is this transition that I’ve been talking about and to really make the transition because this, the marketing space is going through wholesale change. You really need to do one of things either specialize in one clear area of marketing from a role perspective, totally creative or data or interactive or direct or be an operational person within the marketing space. But the real need out there and the best advice is to be eclectic in broad and deepest possible and, and far-reaching skill sets from technical, from database, relating to database to creative understanding marketing strategies, understanding the business, understanding statistics and analysis. Ah, those are the areas that to me are going to allow people to work in these collaborative multi-skill set teams that are being created within all marketing orientations right now.”
Derek: “Okay. You know what? That’s great advice Dean and ah, I really appreciate your time today. Thanks for being on the Digital Bus.”
Dean: “All right. My pleasure Derek.
Derek: “All right Dean, have a great day.
Derek: “Hey this Derek Mehraban.
Speaker 2: “So this is Ross. The Digital Bus Digital Marketing Podcast, the way the market of the future. Their whole lives they’ve been doing television, they’ve been doing television, they’ve been doing radio, they’ve been doing newspaper advertising and there’s whole digital wave comes along. Digital wave how the heck do I do this? Who’s coming into your site and how they behave.”
(Music plays)
Tags: ann arbor · Automotive · Business · CRM · Customer Relationship Management · Dean Krispin · derek mehraban · Ingenex Digital · Marketing · OEM · Purchase · Sales
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